Far less has been published about the origins of the Avro's secret "flying saucer" projects. Recently, while doing research at Canada's National Archives, historian Larry Koerner "came across a file containing a document which provided an account of a meeting that may shed some further light on the development of the Avrocar. The meeting which took place in the then West Germany during 1953, at a Canadian Government installation, was attended by a German aviation engineer along with officers of the R.C.A.F., R.A.F., British Intelligence services and John Frost an Avro Canada executive. The purpose of the meeting was to give Mr. Frost, who was already working on the design of a "ground cushion" vehicle, the opportunity to "cross-examine" the German engineer. This man claimed to have been working on a similar type of aircraft for the German government between 1944 and '45 at a site near Prague in what is now the Czech Republic. Moreover, the German asserted that not only had such a "saucer-like" vehicle been built but it had also been flight-tested. However, he also said that, at the end of the war, both plans and the aircraft itself had been destroyed. Unfortunately the file in question provided no further indication as to how useful this information was to either Avro Canada or to the British and Canadian governments.". (Koerner, 1997)

Frost had begun to investigate some of the ideas that he had hypothesized would lead to a dramatic breakthrough in aviation design. The first known step towards this was one day in late 1951 when Frost walked up to one of the shop superintendents, Bob Johnson, who was involved with the CF-100 production, and gave him a sketch to make a small metal disk of about 9 cm. in diameter by 5 cm. thick with a series of small scoops all around, and central on its circumference edge and with a shaft with ball bearings at its centre (something like a small disk wheel). He also asked for an air pressure gauge and a control valve needed to control the pressure and volume of air passing over the disk.

"The shop superintendent queried John as to where this fitted on the CF-100 and was told never mind, just book its manufacture to something on the CF-100." (Wilkinson, 1991) At this point, even though the workers went ahead and manufactured the part, more than one of them was puzzled by the interest shown by Frost in what they considered a toy or plaything. Johnson was openly wondering if the stress of the CF-100 problems was getting to Frost.

"John Frost was seen later with his clip-board, taking notes while spinning the disk at varying speeds by the use of an air hose pointed at different angles at the small scoops on its circumference. With the disk shaft clamped in a vice, he used a tachometer to record the disk rpm. It was soon after this, that Frost presented his ideas to Avro management at Malton.... " (Wilkinson, 1991) Des Earl, one of the aerodynamicists at Avro was intrigued by the way Frost was able to "turn this thing around with the gyroscope running and it would float around the room in a most fascinating way." (Earl, 1992)

As a result, Frost made a proposal that Avro start an experimental project on its own. "It was not a case of Frost indulging in a personal whim. The idea of a saucer-like flying machine had revolutionary implications then and still does. A conventional aircraft is very inefficient, aerodynamically. Like a bumble bee, there's no way it should fly. It only does so because of the wing which gives it lift and the engine's power to overcome the drag of the fuselage, the load, the tailplane, the stabilizers, fins and the engines." (Williams, 1976)

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